13
Dec
07

Phyreblade’s guide to Altairs retractable blade (From Assassins Creed)

I had been considering doing a piece on retractable blades for a while, and was finally motivated to do so by a post I recently got in my suggestion box. A reader, Zach B. commented about his build of an under-hand retractable blade, similar to what the assassin Altair uses in the game Assassins Creed:

Assassins Creed Poster
[view full size]

In general, I love blogging about game weapons with real-life counterparts, but obviously, this game is pretty new out, so there are no official (or unofficially) produced rip offs… err production “replicas” of the Altairs retractable blade to be had for review.

However, since the games release, there have been numerous attempts to duplicate this weapon, and while YouTube is replete with videos of home made “Assassins Creed” blade contraptions, I noticed that, due to a lot of conflicting concept art from the developers, there is actually a lot of confusion about this blades design.

So, in typical blade nerd fashion, I thought I’d try to sort things out. Not necessarily to replicate the game blade, but rather to come up with a practical, real life design for such a weapon. Now let me preface the following by saying that, for your average dweeb, walking around with a spring loaded blade up your sleeve is an incredibly bad idea. There is a reason why these kinds of weapons were not common, even when they were legal. They are highly impractical, not to mention that they are an accident literally waiting to happen.

But, for those of us who like to live on the edge, love the aesthetics and the mechanical challenge of designing wacky weapons, and are insane enough to try, (notwithstanding the very real possibility of self impalement), I’ll go on. Proceed at your own risk. But remember, Altair has no ring finger. Think about it… People, please, do NOT try this at home…

Mounting and Placement.
For any wrist mounted blade to have the stability and strength to be used effectively, it must be properly mounted. This means a solid (inflexible, like steel, very thick/stiff leather or wood) mounting platform, preferably formed to the shape of your forearm, and a minimum of two straps to keep it in place, one at either end of this base. Your best bet would be to use the entire length of your forearm, with a minimum of two straps, one placed at the wrist and the other just before the elbow, to maximize the weapons stability. Altair has this covered quite nicely, as he used full length bracers with three straps:

Altairs Bracer
[view full size]

Now looking at this concept art for the game you’ll notice that the blade seems to come out from the spot where Altairs ring finger ought to be. In the game, this is not the case, and is entirely impractical for any real life assassin, (unless they are a mutant, like Wolverine) so we will disregard this little snafu, and assume the blade is mounted under the forearm, and not actually in his hand. Next stop, blade design.

Blade Support and Design
Now here is another area that has been thoroughly bolloxed on account of multiple conflicting concept art. In the game, Altairs blade uses a nested rail delivery system, where the blade is housed inside of a set of nested sleeves, which run on an internal guide rail. The sleeves extend sequentially, outermost rail first, then inner rail, and finally the actual blade, once both sleeves are fully extended and locked:

Assassins Creed Blade with double nested sleeves

Altairs Nested Sleeve Blade system
[view full size]

Now here is where the confusion begins. Depending on which art you are looking at, Altairs retractable blade either has two sleeves, or one sleeve:

Assassins Creed Blade with single sleeve

Altairs Single Sleeve blade system
[view full size]

Now nested sleeve systems have the advantage of being able to fit in a retracted form factor that is only a fraction as long as the weapon is when fully extended. This means a much more compact housing. However this comes at a cost. The added complexity of automating the extension and retraction of multiple nested sleeves require smaller, more delicate parts, necessarily manufactured to very close tolerances, that would make the whole mechanism more prone to failure.

In fact, in my opinion, the ideal system would actually use no sleeves whatsoever. And given that you have (and should really use) the entire length of your forearm with which to conceal both the blade and the deployment mechanism, I don’t really see the point of implementing such an elaborate system. Not to mention that a single, fixed-length blade would be stronger, faster, more reliable, and infinitely easier to automate than a shorter blade mounted in multiple sleeves. Which brings us to the our deployment system.

Automation
A very important aspect in the operation of any stealth weapon is an equally stealthy activation mechanism. Preferably one that can be activated ‘hands free”, in a manner of speaking. And Altairs got one. In the first concept picture above, we can see that there is a little harness attached to Altairs pinky from the blade housing. This is intended to be his blades activation switch:

Assassins Creed Blade – Ring/Cable Activated

Assassins Creed Blade Mechanism
[view full size]
[video here]

However, in one of the promotional vids for the game we see Altair having to press a button to release a switch that activated his blade:

Assassins Creed Blade – Button Activated

Assassins Creed Blade Switch
[view full size]
[video here]

Now truth be told, this button is probably one of the more complicated ways of doing this. Indeed, you can see that it’s actuation would be counterintuitive, as it would require you to place your fingers in the path of the out going blade in order to activate it. In any case, from the numerous videos of him in action, we can see that Altair simply flexes his hand away from the blade to activate it, so we can assume that a button based activation system is not used. A finger ring cable is a much more flexible way of doing this, and the one I’d go with.

So far as the actual deployment mechanism is concerned, if we stick with the simple, single blade (no sleeve) approach, we can actually use a very compact dual spring double action out-the-front switch blade mechanism. They are simple, reliable and fairly easy to implement. I won’t go into schematic detail here, as it would extend an already excessively long post, however, I can point you in the direction of a buddy, and fellow knife fanatic Sinza, who has a forum with a lot of helpful diagrams, as well as a break down of some common double action OTF mechanisms. Go on over and check his site out if you have the hankering for a more technical look into the topic…

The Blade.
Finally, we come to the point (pun intended) of all this, which is the design of the actual blade itself. As I mentioned earlier, I favor a single blade approach, with no sleeves, housed in a simple, dual spring loaded guide rail, in the style of your regular OTF switchblade. So far as the blade itself is concerned, we would need to meet a few specific criteria. The blade would need to be long enough to penetrate thick clothing and still puncture vital organs, thin enough to be able to slide between a persons ribs, yet thick enough to resist bending. Throw in double edges, and a sharp point, and we have a winner.

Interestingly, these are the same basic design specifications of the contemporary Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife design, which I will talk about in a future post. Nonetheless, this should give our assassins blade all of the required features to be a terminally effective assassination tool… And that’s all I’ve got to say about that…

About these ads

133 Responses to “Phyreblade’s guide to Altairs retractable blade (From Assassins Creed)”


  1. 1 ladyofspiders
    December 14, 2007 at 4:11 pm

    Though realistcialy inpratical, I love the idea of a retractable blade.

  2. December 17, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    I know… There is really no easy/quick/practical way to “safety” them. I have been dreaming about building a set of forearm mounted retractable blades since I was in high school… I have probably come up with a gazillion different plans, but never actually went through with it… But Someday… Someday… :)

  3. December 18, 2007 at 2:24 am

    Come on Blade, It’s not that hard.
    Pick a design, make it out of aluminum. If it works well make one out of steel. If not then keep designing. It’s taken me the better part of one day to build what I have of the ‘SAW Blade’. Should have it done in another day, maybe two. Two or three days and about $50.
    I’ll help ya!Let me know what you want to build and show me a design, I’ll help you refine it.

    You can do it! Build some badass flip out warrior sets itself on fire blade!!

    ps. Can you send me Zack’s email please? Or maybe point him my way. I’d like to see what he built.

  4. December 21, 2007 at 5:41 am

    LOL Appreciate the offer bud, my problem is lack of time. And space. Don’t have anywhere to work. Not as yet anyway. But I’m working on it…

    BTW I sent Zach B. your info, I’ll let you know if he gets back to me. Let me know if you hear anything from him…

  5. 5 Leevis
    December 23, 2007 at 9:05 am

    Very good job on the whole construction, i take my hat off to you. If someone were to adapt this idea and create it i would definitely check it out.

  6. December 25, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Thanks for posting Leevis. I will certainly take a shot at this at some point, though I get the feeling that Jon (Sinza) will probably beat me to it… :) You might want to keep an eye on him… ;)

  7. 7 James
    December 28, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    All sounds preety cool if you ask me, hell id pay $100 for one if made lol.

  8. 8 James
    December 28, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    actually make that $300 with the clothing :)

  9. December 30, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Thanks for the compliment/comment Leevis/James, I dunno about the clothing, but I get the feeling we’ll be seeing a retractable blade soon enough… :)

  10. 10 dustin
    February 18, 2008 at 4:13 pm

    hey if u guys ever get the retactible blade made out of steel ill buy it from u guys! its the coolest blade ever and would look so great with my sword collection =)

  11. February 18, 2008 at 9:53 pm

    Well, it seems that this weapon is probably going to be illegal in most states, however if you want to look into building a toy version, look up Sinzas website. There’s all kinds of info on it there…
    http://sinza.forumotion.com/index.htm

  12. 12 dustin
    March 15, 2008 at 8:33 pm

    dude who cares about illegal lol jp i meen i would just add it to my collection and. i dont really play my weapons have a cabinet i put them in so every one can enjoy them lol

  13. March 16, 2008 at 10:55 am

    LOL Weeelll… I care… Kinda… Not that I think the laws make any sense, but… You know… :) What’s ironic is how laws are written such as to place a burden of illegality on the possession of an object, rather than the person who engaged in the illegal use of said object.

    Seems needlessly restrictive to me. As it is, even an innocent, law abiding citizens, hobbyists or historians are turned into criminals by mere possession, regardless of how honorable their intentions are.

    I say, let everyone have whatever they want, then just write the laws so that anyone stupid enough to do something foolish with them will get the book thrown at them so hard, their grandchildren will be finishing their sentences…

    It would work just as well, without placing any unfair restrictions of the law abiding component of society… But that’s just this bloggers humble opinion…

  14. 14 dustin
    March 18, 2008 at 3:14 pm

    i agree with that…….its so dumb that their is a law against the weap. but not much i can do about it lol

  15. 15 Kellix
    May 24, 2008 at 4:10 pm

    I’m a TIG welder by trade and have access to a lot of various metals. What would you recommend for a wrist blade? I’m guessing aluminum would be good for a starter, but steel for a stronger design. I live in a “rough” neighborhood and am not a popular favorite around here, hence the weapon making.
    Already made quite a few blades (swords, Taki-like knives, crossing back sheathes, etc.) so i have experience with this. But any advice would be very appreciated.

  16. May 24, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Hey Kellix,

    Well, ideally, I would use Aluminum for pretty much everything but the blade and the extension mechanism, as those are the only components that would require any major resistance to flexion…

    I should also mention, if you are making weapons for self defense purposes, it would be advisable to stick to regular knives, preferably of a nonthreatening appearance, or get a gun, (or better yet, learn to run really, really fast… LOL)

    Because unfortunately, regardless of fault, you will not be looked upon favorably should you ever get into an altercation with anything as exotic as a retractable blade… IANAL, but I’ve hear/read lots of rather ludicrous but true stories about how the law works in that regard…

  17. 17 Kellix
    May 25, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Thanks for the advice.
    I make exotic weapons for two reasons; I’m good at it, and I’m trained for them.
    Been taking martial arts for the past 15 years and have trained in just about everything from staves, sai, katar, to double edged swords. I’m just more comfortable with blades than with guns.
    I’ve also tried the non-threatening appearance thing, but most of these guys are drug dealers that I helped put away (ex Coast Guard). So they don’t take the hint. Intimidation is a wonderful thing.

  18. May 26, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    Yeah, I hear ya, I’m also much more comfortable with knives than with guns. Wish it weren’t the case though. I like guns. Just never really got into them as much as knives. That and there are few martial arts that teach gun Katas LOL But yeah, I can see where they can be more intimidating. It’s just that it’s usually all downhill from there if the intimidation doesn’t do the trick…

  19. 19 bored out of his mind
    June 8, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    lol im thinking of making one i got a way to retract it i just need a way to extend it other then that i think i might have a good idea of how to make it if u guys have any suggestions on how to extend it let me no

  20. June 9, 2008 at 2:42 pm

    Hey Bored,
    If you are looking for good ideas on how to make one you should visit Sinza’s site, he’s a good friend of mine, and his site has pretty much all the information you could ever possibly want on the subject…

    http://sinza.forumotion.com

    Go check it out…

  21. 21 Kellix
    June 11, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Hey Sinza.

    I checked out that design for the retractable on your site. Nice design but do you have a readout of the measurements and translations for all the numbers? Leave me a message at http://www.xanga.com/Jenos if possible.

    Thanks

  22. June 18, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    damn i would almost feel inspired to make one if i wasnt sure my shotty craftsmenship and vocational skills would result in the blade in my wrist or in my foot hahaha

    **clarification**
    it is my understanding that altair cut off his ring finger in order to make way for the blade to push out and also prob offered more leverage and control in the strike being able to grip the blade with his middle finger and pinky finger.

    **NOTE**
    on phyreblades behalf please do not cut off ring finger and take up a new career in vigilante assassinations, thank you

    Jamie

  23. 23 Crosseyes
    June 18, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    I wonder if assasinations with those kinds of blades are really as low profile as promoted in the game, if so it could see a real revival in “the business” of today (you’ll be fine, just watch for shady guys in suits with large leather bracers).

    P.s. Gratz on the G4 Advert

    X_X

  24. June 18, 2008 at 9:42 pm

    Interesting ideas gentlemen. Some guys at the shop and I talked about making a functioning retractable blade and deployment mechanism for weeks and finally came up with a design that we believe works rather well. Instead of a conventional knife blade, we used a 3/16″ diameter steel rod that we sharpened to a very keen point. This blade is mounted on the underside of the forearm via a guide rail and steel mounting plate, and is spring loaded, naturally. The blade is held in place via two sear pins on each side. An identical steel mounting plate is located on the top of the forearm as well, to house the deployment mechanism. After toying around with several “hands-free” deployment mechanisms in CAD we decided on an actuated lever (essentially a glorified hinge) mounted on top of the wrist that can be engaged by flicking the wrist upwards. This causes the two sear pins locking the blade in place to disengage, much like the trigger mechanisms on expensive target rifles. Unrestrained, the blade is pushed forward by three high tension springs until it is fully deployed, where it is locked in place by a locking lug. The entire assembly weighs in at approximately 12 oz. and is 7.75″ in length, and the best part: this design allows for a safety. I couldn’t figure out how to upload CAD files but feel free to email me if you want the specs or CAD technical drawings.
    *On a side note, for self-defense, I’d take my Glock 38 in .45 GAP over a knife any day. I can draw and fire in 2.18 seconds from a carry rig…hats off to you if you can kill me before then.

  25. 25 David
    June 18, 2008 at 11:05 pm

    if you have the time I would very much appreciate the drawings please,thanks

  26. 26 cj jack
    June 19, 2008 at 11:14 am

    if you could i would also like thise specs email me at cjack214@gmail.com

  27. 27 Syn
    June 19, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    I think placing the blade on the side of the arm (right side of the right arm, or vice versa) would be more productive. it would lower the risk of you hitting a thin vital spot (your wrist) in the event of mechinalcal falure, and would alsolower the risk on you hitting your hand as the blades come out, because we do not tend to bend our hands in that direction, especialy with a closed fist. i noticed the wrist spike on the website listed, and figured if the ring was develped to be pulled to the left, then it would be pretty hard for your hand to be hit.

    oh also in the event you are using this blade (on like, test equipment of couse) i think having the blade on the right side would maximize force. only thing is the blade might bend a bit more, and my take a little while to the concept of the edge of your hand for hitting, so accuracy might be low.

    i dont know, just a spur of the moment idea :). and if someone wants to take this idea (if it has not already been done of couse :P) feel free to try it, cuz i do not intend on making any weapons for a long time.

  28. June 19, 2008 at 3:48 pm

    Phoenix:
    Think you could upload some screenshots of the CAD design? IE: Front, Left Side, Right Side, Rear, Bottom, Top, Cross Section, Action Pics (spring and lug movements in various stages of deployment) to flickr or photobucket?

    Blade:
    Gratz on the G4/TechTV blurb. Look forward to reading more on your site.

    Concerning the wristblade, the feasibility of using an under-wrist sheath with spring extension is far less probable in combat than a similar wristblade mounted over-wrist. I believe I’ll build one that’s top-wrist design instead of below-wrist.

    – D

  29. June 19, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    Sure thing guys. I’ll need to wait until I get out from work (2 hours) before I can upload any screenshots (it’ll be my arse if the boss catches me doing it on company time), but I’ll see what I can do. I wasn’t aware that CAD could demonstrate action sequences, but then again the shop is using a 2002 version, so it could just be our software. If not I’ll just try and snap photos myself, seeing as I’m not exactly 100% computer savvy anyways.

    I never really thought about it before, but our device can probably be worn with the blade on top of the forearm too. Everything is spring-loaded, so I doubt the system would be adversely affected by inversion…all you’d have to do is flick your wrist down instead of up.

  30. 30 Crosseyes
    June 20, 2008 at 12:30 am

    wow, lots of response in so little time, G4 nets crazy publicity.

    In response to phoenix, I never really saw altair’s hidden blade as double-edged. In my opinion a blade with two edges is more meant for combat rather than assasination.

    Also, I wouldn’t advise a “top of the arm” system. two advantages of having it on the underside of the arm:

    1) having the blade open from under the arm makes it easily concealable under the palm
    2) The main reason Altair is as stealthy as he is, is because his assasinations only look like friendly gestures to the public, but if the blade is topside, the only thing you look like your doing is punching someone.

    If you want to get in and get out, you have to be silent before during and after

  31. 31 Crosseyes
    June 20, 2008 at 12:45 am

    Also Phoenix, I know I’m not the only one here who could point out quite a few situations where a knife has advantage over a gun. It’s all in the situation my friend, that goes for all the blade advocates as well.

    choose your weapons wisely kids.

    (not kids though of course, that would be highly irresponsible)

    X_X

  32. June 20, 2008 at 4:29 pm

    @Kellix
    Hey Dunno if Sinza got in touch with you or not, but if you want you can go to his site http://sinza.forumotion.com and PM him… You’ll have to register, but i guarantee you will be among friends :D LOL

    @Jamie
    Thank you for the public service announcement! :)

    @Crosseyes
    Historical assassins would almost certainly have tried to be low profile, but would also have been more likely to use traditional weapons. Back then a weapon like this would have a very low reliability factor, which would be anathema to an assassins job…

    @Phoenix
    What you are describing sounds a lot like the weapon used by one of the Assassins in Smokin’ Aces…
    But I agree, for both practical and legal reasons, a hand gun is a *much* better defense weapon than a blade.

    @Syn
    Actually, the way the hand is designed, I think that no matter where on your forearm you decide to place a retractable blade, top, bottom left or right, you will injure yourself if there is an accidental discharge because your hand actually extends past your wrists on both the right and left sides. most people are more likely to have their hands down rather than up at any given point, so the safest place imho would be a top of the arm mount. Not that it will 100% guarantee that your hand will be out of the way if a discharge should occur, but probabilistically speaking… I’d just recommend building it like your limbs depended on it and being careful all the time… :)

    @Daerk
    Thanks for the gratz! I walk a way for five minutes and suddenly my blog is inundated… LOL
    Agreed, from a pure combat perspective, (IE for use as a melee weapon) over the wrist is more commonly seen (historically any way) to under the wrist, I think, because it allows for much more flexibility of use. However I’d also point out that in pure combat, a retractable wrist blade has many weaknesses that are anathema to combat reliability…

    @Crosseyes
    Regarding double vs single blade, actually a double edged blade is, imho better suited to assassination than a single edged blade, as assassin would be less worried about strength (the advantage of a single edged blade) and more about flexibility of use, and single strike lethality.
    But I do agree with you about under the arm mounting for stealth reasons. It is just much easier to conceal the mechanism under/inside the forearm than it is on the outside.

    And just a final thought in the knife vs guns for self defense scenario, I like knives, but i’ve learned that while there *are* some situations where a knife might be preferable to a firearm, Most of those situations can be handled equally well by a hand gun, *provided* the one defending themselves has been properly trained in close quarters self defense with a firearm. And it lessens your legal liability if you should ever have the unfortunate need to use your training.

    This cannot be stressed enough.

    If you are carrying a weapon for self defense, you MUST GET TRAINING on how to use it properly, regardless of whether it is a firearm or not. The old adage about guns not killing people is true. Your weapon is not going to defend you on it’s own either, and is no good to you if you don’t know how to use it properly…

  33. 33 Crosseyes
    June 21, 2008 at 1:04 am

    O.O wow, gotta look up anathema real quick… ok, yea, you do have a point with that, reliability is definitly a huge factor in situations assasins constantly find themselves in, meaning the next best thing with stealth would have to be a dagger, which is a real leap down from the coolness podium, but I digress.

    Also, I’m not sure of the exact definition of a “blade” and I’m not going to spend the time trying to figure it out, but by “non-double-edged, I didn’t mean single-edged, I was hinting at a more cylindrical design with a point at the end, which i’m sure probably keeps it sturdy far longer than a thin body and base that side edges display regardless of material design. Honestly I really don’t even see the point of the hidden blade having blades on the sides, which accomadate more of a slashing approach rather than the stabbing that 100% of altairs hidden blade kills were performed with.

    Honestly though, I may have no Idea what I’m talking about, I don’t have any kind of education in either historical, or technical knowledge of these kinds of things; I’m just goin with what I feel X-)

    Crosseyes signing out
    X_X

  34. June 21, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    Crosseyes:
    Actually using a rod or spike design is the best for such a weapon. It wouldn’t be as apt to deform, it’s able to be gripped without cutting yourself, if your hand brushes it while thrusting you don’t slice n dice yourself, and the design actually focuses more force onto the point of the needle-like rod. If you tapered the rod to about the last half in to inch of the rod length and then had a sharply tapered section to a needle/razor sharp point, it’d offer the most stable and strongest possible wrist-blade weapon.

    I might design mine as a rod, but right now i’m just ironing out the details of the DAOTF mechanics.

    – D

  35. 35 Crosseyes
    June 21, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    i had a good idea? oh, *ahem*, I mean, of course I had a good idea :D. (to self) My ideas almost never work… :/

  36. June 22, 2008 at 9:23 am

    LOL

    @Crosseyes
    Just in general, when I talk about a blade, I’m referring to any flattened implement with a cutting edge.

    @Daerk
    The sharpened rod/spike idea is a good one, especially given the way Altair uses his, but I don’t know if I’d say it’s the “best” one. There is a lot to be said for not limiting your weapon to one specific function. Different tactics and scenarios generally require different approaches, and the best weapon for one is not always the best for another…

  37. 37 randieq
    June 22, 2008 at 1:47 pm

    i drew a picture of altairs blade arm. if any one wants to see, go to this link. its my group site. Im Zutara (thats my game name) piczo.com/forged/groupart my pics are at the very bottom

  38. June 22, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    Phoenix, I’d love the CAD and Tech specs if you don’t mind. E-mail me at PaladinJI@hotmail.com

  39. 39 randie
    June 23, 2008 at 5:20 pm

    did you like my picture? its worth looking at. its not like a 10 year old drawing either.

  40. 40 Crosseyes
    June 24, 2008 at 12:31 am

    hrm… I understand how limiting the “spike” design is, but the thought of slashing with a hidden blade seems so bizzare it almost doesn’t even matter. And if trading a small corner of it’s functionality will give it another level of safety and reliability, I say go with the spike.

    X_X

  41. June 25, 2008 at 11:34 pm

    @Crosseyes
    Out of curiosity, what, in your opinion, makes slashing with a hidden blade more bizarre than thrusting with a hidden spike? The motion/hand position?

  42. June 27, 2008 at 3:53 am

    wouldnt it have a higher tendecy to bend if u slashed i mean he does stab more than slash anyway

  43. 43 Crosseyes
    June 30, 2008 at 1:37 am

    two majors:

    1) since the blade/spike extends only about as far as the hand slashing would be awkward and overt.
    2) most vital organs are located further under the skin than slashing is accomidated for (with jugulars and other major bloodways as obvious exceptions)

    Well guys, this is it. It’s been fun, but I’m gonna make my exit while I’m still slightly reputable.

    p.s. franky: good points, but both have been made before. By me in fact… anyways just remember not to use video games as references, phyre’ll strike ya for it :D

    Never coming back,
    Crosseyes

    X_X

  44. 44 Jared
    June 30, 2008 at 4:09 pm

    To the people debating the dagger vs spike, there’s a reason people went from pointy sticks to broad bladed spears for hunting :D You’re not taking into account the wound size, a wide blade will make a much larger hole.

  45. July 7, 2008 at 7:35 pm

    @Crosseyes
    Sad to see you go, hopefully it wasn’t due to anything I said, I don’t try to get on anyones case, and i wasn’t trying to discredit anything you were saying. When I ask questions it is becasue I really do want to understand where you are coming from. I hope you understand that.
    But if I can’t change your mind, it’s been a pleasure…

    @Jared
    I agree, daggers do have much better wound channel characteristics vs spikes, which is why I favor them. And they can also be designed to resist bending, with an only minimal increase in size over a comparably strong spike. Which is why, in general, I personally don’t see why anyone would want to sacrifice the extra edges… But again, that’s just me…

  46. 46 Crosseyes
    July 7, 2008 at 9:57 pm

    damn, I just couldn’t stay away. I never like to commit to these kind of things because my reputation tends to dwindle at an exponential rate. Oh well, back to the grind.

    The blade may be wider but it wouldn’t make a difference to a proffessional, even a small hole in the stomach, lungs, or cerebral cortex (that peice of brain at the top back of your neck) is almost always fatal, and a smaller blade/spike is always more covert.

    Well, I’m back
    X_X

  47. July 9, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    Hey man, no worries, there is no shame in having no rep. ;) What’s important is that you figure out why you have no rep and take steps to fix it. :)

    And while I disagree with you about a spike being that much more covert than a narrow blade, you are probably correct about a highly trained pro not necessarily needing the added flexibility of a blade instead of a spike. However it wouldn’t hurt either…

    And BTW, Welcome Back. :D

  48. 48 somerandom
    July 10, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Hey, just wanted to say that I like what you’ve posted. I actually built a rig almost exactly the same size as Altair’s when out (12 inches from wrist), and undetectable (won’t stick out from my wrist) when in, and it’s motion-triggered. I have a trigger which you have to pull for the blade to come out, because the friction of part of the trigger against the blade stops it from coming out when the trigger isn’t pulled, but when you pull it, there’s nothing stopping the blade from coming out. Once the blade is out, you have to pull the trigger again for it to fold back in. My version has 3 parts if you were to pull it apart. Since mine is only powered through momentum and friction, you couldn’t actually use it to kill anyone, it would collapse with too much pressure.

    I realised after making this stupid thing that if you really wanted to inconspicuously (dunno if I spelt that right) kill someone, you wouldn’t have something so huge sticking out of your wrist (In Altairs case). I measured it, and you need something approximately half the size of Altairs blade to kill someone. You only need, say, 3 inches into the throat to kill someone, so a blade 6 inches long is a safe bet, and 12 inches long is waaaay overkill. If you were an assassin and you wanted to kill someone with a hidden blade, just have a 6 inch inch long blade hidden within your long sleeves, and make sure you really jam the blade hard into that dam guard’s throat. I mean really, I’m a 13 year old kid and my hand is 7 inches from wrist to the tips of my fingers, so I could have a 6 inch blade sticking out of my wrist and I could mostly cover it with my hand..

  49. 49 somerandom
    July 10, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    Also, in the example pictures you gave of Altairs hidden blade, you labelled one as double nested and one as single nested. I believe you are wrong, both are double nested, it’s just the so called ‘single nested’ version has less difference in size between the first and second out-folding parts. It also seems that in the first nest there is a locking pin sticking out, holding the second nest in place, which would explain a lot. If you want I can highlight it in paint of PS or something.

    Wow…this is wierd. I can just post without creating an account or anything? I was surprised when my first post came out. Cool! While I’m here and/or before you’d possibly ban me for doing something I’m not aware I’m not allowed to do or something, let me say that I admire your character and Rules. Hehe. Didn’t read them all, but I still liked it. Oh, and yes, I really am 13.

  50. 50 Crosseyes
    July 10, 2008 at 11:48 pm

    Jeeze, for 13 this guy sounds smart. I thought 15 was enough to aquire intrigue ( string of fancy words there wink wink ;) ). Anyways, when you’re going for minimum length, you really can’t be to specific: while I’m sure you can clip a jugular with as little as a couple of inches, one of the big things about assasination is that you have to be flexable. If for some reason you can’t get to the targets neck (also I think there may be one in the leg…) and you only have a 2-inch blade, you’d be in trouble. The point is actually to have the blade/spike as LONG as possible (without being conspicuous of course).

    no comment on the technical mumbo-jumbo, that isn’t really my field :)

  51. 51 Crosseyes
    July 10, 2008 at 11:51 pm

    man I HATE that auto smiley thing, disregard that winking guy after “leg…”

  52. 52 Niccolo
    July 11, 2008 at 12:30 am

    I think medical knowledge comes in useful here… ^^; I did just enough medicine to learn how EASY it is to kill someone. Nothing about saving them. And if you’re a skilled assassin, two inches is enough. (Ignoring the possible use of the whole “size vs usage” joke)

    Assasins knew the body just as well as doctors do. And with a 2-inch blade (thin and flat like a dagger, I’ll explain this later) then there are no less than… *Counts* 8 places where you can stab them and they’ll bleed to death pretty damn quickly. Behind each knee, three in the groin area, the throat (both sides or straight-on) and in the armpit. The armpit is a double-whammy; if you miss the huge freaking artery (you bleed to death in like ten or twenty seconds when that’s cut) then you get their nerves; they lose their arm, and the impact will paralyse them for a good half a minute, and they’ll be woozy for another minute. If you can’t kill a paralysed man then you’re certainly no assassin.

    On top of that, the lungs are very close to the surface, as is the sack they sit in. That gives you the whole chest as a target; all you need to do is puncture the pleural cavity and they cannot breath; you could do that with a blade half the size. Muscle may be in the way, but muscle squashes quite adequately. Umm… you could say that the body is made to be stabbed.

    A thin, flat shape is better than a spike for small stabbity things simply ’cause it slides in easier. As well as that, the weapon only swells out along one axis rather than two (if you look at it head-on) and this makes it better for sliding between ribs.

    A six-inch blade would make life very interesting. The human torso is only eight to ten inches thick, unless you’re killing fat people. The only reason I’d go for a two or three inch stabbity instrument over a longer one is the tendency for the damn things to snap. Reinforcing, special tempering and all that aside, six inches of thin steel is still flimsy.

  53. 53 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 2:31 am

    Heh wow that was fast replying. I didn’t expect that, so I just kinda zoned out and didn’t check this. If it makes you feel any more intelligent, Crosseyesor less like you have to speak degradingly, I’m turning fourteen in a short number of months, and I go to a selective school ;).

    I see what you mean. Though in Assassins Creed Altair only ever uses it to stab, and in the neck, a blade like that, attatched so firmly to the forearm, could be easily used to kill people in face-to-face combat. Not that if it came to that you wouldn’t just pull out a sword, but the whole hidden blade thing is mostly for aesthetic appeal. And as an assassin, flexibility (in use) is always important.

    Niccolo – That was actually what I was referring to. Not that I have any medical knowledge at all, I just know that in MythBusters they built a papercrossbow with an elastic string and shot a glue-hardened plastic-tipped arrow into the neck of a ballistics gel dummy several feet away three inches deep, which would have been fatal, judging from where exactly it hit. I didn’t know that you could paralyse someone by stabbing them in the armpit @-@. six inches of thin steel is flimsy, I agree, that’s where the whole spike thing would come into use. However, it doesn’t have to be very thin to stab someone three inches deep, or less.

    Remember guys, this thing has to be able to kill someone through bleeding to death as well as immediately. I mean, in the game, you creep up on a guy and stab him with it, he makes slight gurgling sounds and goes down. No-one even notices him die until either you run away, or someone actually looks at him (idiots. ‘Oi! ‘E’s an Assassin!’. Really? Couldn’t tell from that huge thing sticking out of his arm, and those throwing knives, and the two swords he has on). However, if you stab an one of the main dudes, or bosses, they’ll give you a really fruitful five minute conversation before deciding to die at a suspensful point in their speech.

  54. 54 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 2:33 am

    I’m assuming this is an american server. Lolz. I’m Australian. It’s only 6:30 PM here.

  55. July 11, 2008 at 10:44 am

    LOL Hey there, Random 13 YO Kid, Nice to meet you… LOL

    Regarding the double vs triple nested sleeves, I am not seeing the the third sleeve on the one I was referring to as double nested. From what I can see, the blade is fully extended, and yet I can discern only 3 distinct sections: The housing, the extension, and the blade.

    So unless there is an unextended sleeve (which wouldn’t make much sense, as the blade is already fully extended) I don’t see it… But if you could highlight each individual sleeve you are seeing in PS and post a link to it, that would be very helpful.

    BTW you all make some very good points about blade length too. Though I will point out that my recommendation was also based on physiological and environmental flexibility. I have to beg to differ on the “two inches being enough for a skilled assassin” idea. There is a reason why I chose to model the AC blade on the 6″ FS fighting knife. It actually takes into account some variables that an assassin has no control over, such as how much clothing you are wearing, or which target you actually realistically have access to.

    In the real world, you will not always have access to the ideal, close to the surface targets, nor would they be guaranteed slim, trim targets so I think a smart assassin would choose a blade that would allow a wide number of different options. A 2″ blade would seriously limit you in this respect.

    The other thing also thought I’d point out is that human beings are actually quite resilient. We are not as easy to kill as it may appear on the surface. People have survived being stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, etc, ad nauseam countless times, by bladed weapons far in excess of 6″ long. The thing to remember is that it’s not necessarily what you do, but the fine details of how you do it, that will ensure a kill.

    Any professional assassin worth their salt would know this, and always ensure they hit specific targets in order to maximize their chances of a successful hit. So while it may appear easy to kill a person, this is only true if you know exactly what to do in order to guarantee that your target dies.

    As an example, I think that fatal Mythbusters neck shot was a fluke. There a lot of places it could have hit that would not have killed the target. I mean look at 50 Cent. Shot nine times, and the guy is still walking around. The devil is in the details…

  56. 56 Crosseyes
    July 11, 2008 at 11:36 am

    wow, for a single day this is a pretty good amount of feedback :)

    2 inches to the lungs? really… well I’m no doctor. Nevertheless, alot of the fatalities lie behind that odd sheild known as the ribcage, I must imagine going for something in there has to be the scariest of all targets. If you hit one of those spikey bones in there your blade comes to a complete halt, the target gets away with minor lacerations, and you’re either shot or arrested. It doesn’t occour to most, but assasins are basically required to have the entire human anatomy memorized, if the case comes where your normal striking points are blocked off (vest, bodygaurds, 3 inch thick reinforced concrete, whatever) you can’t hesitate, you have to find another one immediately or risk losing your chance.

    that one wasn’t too good >_<
    I guess I write better before I sleep
    X_X

  57. 57 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 6:58 pm

    Yeah, the flexibility would be nice, but remember guys, if you’re an assassin, you’re gonna have more than just a few weapons. If worst comes to worst, you’d probably just pull out a sword. Remember, most of Assassins Creed is set in a really packed city, which is why him going around covered in weapons and killing people doesn’t have to be too stealthily done. I mean, you might say that pulling out a sword is less stealthy than using a hidden blade, but putting your wrist up against a guys neck, blood coming out and him falling to the ground isn’t much less conspicuous than just pulling out a sword and slitting his throat, or puncturing it. You could just go around with a 3 inch blade, and if something goes wrong, pull out a sword.

    I think I may have been unclear about the single, double, triple nested thing. When I said three, I meant three parts, including housing. My point about your error was that in the diagram in which you said it was single nested, I believe it was double nested. I don’t think there are any Assassins Creed pictures/movies with him using a single nested one. I will highlight it though. Dunno how I can post the images. HTML? IMG?

  58. 58 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 7:24 pm

    …I’ll just post direct links.

    PhyreBlade – This was the Assassins Creed hidden blade picture to which you referred as ‘double nested’. I took this to mean that when fully extended, the blade had three parts: The housing, the extension, and the blade tip. I agree if that is what you meant. I also believe that there is a locking pin in the second extension, which I highlighted as a circle.

    Ref pic 1: http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj235/carlimon/AssassinsCreed1.jpg

    Ref pic 1 highlighted: http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj235/carlimon/AssassinsCreed1highlighted.jpg

  59. 59 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 7:25 pm

    Wierd. Now both my posts have things saying ‘Your comment is awaiting moderation’ underneath, and when I tried to put both my last two posts in one post, it said it was discarded. Huh? I do something wrong?

  60. 60 That 13-year old kid
    July 11, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    Hold on…Phyreblade, were you suggesting that the first ref. pic I showed had three moving parts? The housing, two extensions, and the blade? Because in that picture, what may appear to be an extension is just part of the housing. It is permanent, and does not slide in or out.

  61. 61 Niccolo
    July 11, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    *Has read most of the posts*
    Ja, true, fat people wouldn’t die from a two-inch blade…

    But a correction I want to make; the lung is not always a mere two inches below the surface, depending on whether there’s air in it or not. But the cavity is. And if you pierce the cavity (Stuck TO the ribcage) then they cannot breathe. To cut a two-hour lecture on breathing short, lungs work by the cavity expanding. The change in pressure makes the lungs expand, thus drawing in air. Pierce the cavity, and the pressure doesn’t expand.

    Eh. Each blade/spike has it’s own advantages or disadvantages.

  62. July 12, 2008 at 10:36 am

    @That 13-year old kid

    Yes, you have done something wrong.

    YOU DID NOT READ ALL OF THE RULES!!!

    If you had read the rules you would know why your posts weren’t going through. Before you type another word, go and read them ALL. They are there for more than just amusement.

    About Altair having many alternative weapons, I think you are missing the point of the hidden blade. It is clear that Altair is walking around with waaay more than his fair share of blades upon his person. However it is quicker and also much less conspicuous to deploy a hidden blade than it is to draw a knife or sword.

    Also, in reality, not all of an assassins hits would be in a large, heavily populated area. There will be times when they would need a weapon that is quick to deploy, but will not stand out. That is the whole point of having a hidden blade. So putting yourself in any situation where you might need to draw your sword to finish a person off defeats the whole purpose of having a hidden blade.

    Regarding the housing/sleeves/blade issue, I think you are confused about how the different parts of the mechanism operate. If you to go back and highlight the housing (which does not move) the blade, and the extensions for each design, you will see that there is one housing, and one blade for each, but a different number of extensions in each. Trust me on this… :)

  63. 63 That 13-year old kid
    July 12, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Reading rules now…
    I’m pretty sure that with the first one I highlighted, what appears to be a first extension is just housing. Heh, you deleted my second reference pic post? Hmm, better read those rules. Anyway, can’t say much more, my dad’s having a (birthday) party today, and my mum’s going frantic over the houses decor and such. Which means no comp :(. Oh well. I’ll be back to argue my case tomorrow.

  64. 64 Crosseyes
    July 12, 2008 at 10:19 pm

    take it from me, a great way to cut out making repeat posts is to wait at least 5 min between finishing typing and pressing send. you’ll find that alot of the things you forget to include come to you between 30 seconds and 3 minutes. I learned the hard way :) / :(

    Happy B-day to your dad :D
    X_X

  65. 65 That 13-year old kid
    July 13, 2008 at 2:13 am

    Thanks, I’d tell my dad if he wouldn’t ask me why I was on the internet talking to and telling random people/possible pedophiles his birthday.

    No, I didn’t repeat a post, I posted two different posts, both about the number of parts in the hidden blade mechanism. I disagree with Phyre’s statement that the concept art is conflicting, and I gave outlinged examples why in two different posts. However, I see that Phyre deleted the second, so he must have thought it was either unnecessary or had no point. So tommorrow (here) I’m gonna repost more clearly.

  66. 66 That 13-year old kid
    July 14, 2008 at 6:05 am

    Hello! It appears that I am, indeed, wrong. I apologise, I was halfway through writing a whole post about why you (Phyre) were wrong, when I zoomed in on the first reference pic, and noticed a small detail that I had overlooked. You are quite correct, there seems to be two extensions as a pose to one, the concept art is indeed conflicting.

    Now, back to the actual mechanics of the whole extendable blade thing. What threw me off about the amount of extensions of the first picture is that the first extension extends differently to the other one, and the blade. In the picture, you can clearly see an indent in each extension (and the blade) with a locking pin at the end of each, suggesting that the mechanism uses that as a locking mechanism. Anyway, the first extension has two indents on either side, which I failed to notice. This extension, as it extends from the housing itself, extends differently to the other extension and the blade, and does not appear to lock, but rather to slip out to provide more length for the blade more than anything else. If I were to create a blade such as in this diagram (except I would only use one extension and one blade, two is ridiculous) it would be easier to use gravity to retract the blade than one pulled by a button or lever or something. I intend to buy parts and try to build one of these (however, I will have limitations, as I am only thirteen, so lack skill, equipment and authority to use certain things)

  67. July 14, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Hey Kid,

    Yes, i did delete your second post, as it contained too much of the same info from the first one. I’m not a big fan of multi-posts, as they are generally the trademark of someone who has not thoroughly thought about what they are posting before they hit the “Submit” button.

    Take Crosseyes advice on that, either write out your ideas, in their entirety, off line, before you post or sit and think about what you’ve posted for 5 or more, (more, in this case, is better) minutes before you hit the “submit” button. In fact I think I’m gonna make it a new rule…

    But besides that, please do not be concerned about making mistakes. Mistakes are human nature, everyone makes them. Even Balrogs. Just so long as you aren’t being idiotic about being wrong, no harm, no foul. I will not (nor, I hope, will anyone else here) hold a mistake against anyone.

    You also don’t have to explain where you went wrong, so long as you’ve thought about why you made that mistake and how to avoid it in the future. We should be more about learning from our mistakes than trying to be right all the time…

    But that being said, I think a manual lock gravity blade idea is a good one in practice, though it would not work for an assassin, as there are situations where it would require very “loud” hand gestures to operate…

  68. 68 The Kid
    July 14, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    Okay, I don’t get the reference to Balrogs, whatever computer game or movie they may be from is not known to me.

    Yeah. Unfortunately, noise is indeed a problem with many of these designs and ideas.

    The Kid

  69. July 15, 2008 at 12:17 am

    Actually the Balrog is a creature from J.R. Tolkiens Lord of the Rings series (The fire demon in the LOTR movie was a Balrog) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balrog
    It is who I envision my blogging alter ego to be. Hence the name Phyreblade.

    Also I may have waxed a little too metaphorical on my response, but when I said “loud” I meant very large and obvious arm motions, not in terms of sound but in visibility. kinda like a “loud” hawaiian shirt. Very visually distracting.

    Gravity based weapons often require a flick of the wrist in order to operate as desired, but since this would be arm mounted, it might actually require a rather fast flick of the arm, that would almost certainly attract attention…

  70. 70 Crosseyes
    July 15, 2008 at 4:56 pm

    Awesome! I helped inspire legislation! uh, er… *ahem* anyways…

    As stated before I don’t claim to be a mechanic, nor do I claim to know anything extensive about machines (TV makes moving pictures, that’s as far as I’ve gotten.) keep that in mind while reading this.

    There are really only two ways I can see gravity working in a blade like this;

    1) the blade is un-restrained until it’s fully extended and locked, meaning it’s easy to draw, but makes it hard to look inconspicuous when you never have your arm below 90 degrees.

    2) The blade works similar to part 1 but it’s harder to draw and doesn’t lock, making it easier to re-sheath or what-ever it does, also it’s un-reliable for stabbing through some of the bodies rougher materials.

    Lastly: don’t worry about it kid, I’m sure if I told my dad: “random people on the internet say happy birthday” he would think along the same lines :D

    gotta wait another week to re-take my driver’s permit test D:
    Crosseyes
    X_X

  71. July 15, 2008 at 10:02 pm

    @Crosseyes
    The best way (imho) to implement a gravity blade is to have a free floating blade that can be manually locked and unlocked at both full extension and retraction. And the issue with the kind of arm motions that would be required in order to get the blade to “fly” open/closed is really my biggest concern with regards to using a gravity blade for an application that requires inconspicuous deployment. I wouldn’t recommend it.

  72. 72 The Kid
    July 15, 2008 at 11:11 pm

    Oh, the giant flaming dude with the whip?

    Glad you understand, Crosseyes.

    Actually, what I was thinking of is something that will fully extend and lock when unrestrained, but has something blocking it, either automatic or manual. You remove this thing blocking it, through press of a button, lever, or physically removing it with your hands, and the blade extends and locks, through the use of locking pins. You kill the dude, then press the locking pins back in, it folds back in.

    Though there would be quite a few problems with this, I think this is the easiest and most reliable version. In this one, you wouldn’t need ‘loud’ movements, but there would be loud clicking sounds when it retracts. I’ve tried.

  73. 73 Crosseyes
    July 18, 2008 at 12:46 am

    I’m both amazed, and slightly disturbed that a 13 year old has constructed a full working weapon of silent assasination.

    The funny thing of this design is that if you listen during the game, altair’s blade is pretty loud on both the draw and the retraction. However, since most of his assasinations take place in populated town squares/busy marketplaces he’s basically been able to take out the noise as a factor.

    The problem with worrying over the specs of a weapon such as this really depends on the situation. I am sure that many different designs each have their pros and cons, and I am also sure that there is no one design set that will make it 100% deadly stealthy and sturdy. As an assasin you are forced to tune both yourself and you equipment to each individual task; in the preperation, execution, and resolution.

    If you can figure out what the situation is based on what it calls for, than you don’t need it to be perfect, you just need it to work

    Inspiration after midnight
    Crosseyes
    X_X

  74. 74 The Kid
    July 19, 2008 at 7:04 pm

    Yeah. Frankly, there’s a lot of problems with this blade. If we tried to make one such as is in the game, we’d need a huge metal/leather/something hard and stiff bracer to secure it. I still think having a six inch blade permanently fixed to my wrist would be a much better option, because of stability and because there would be no need for a trigger mechanism. Anyway, back to what I was saying a few sentences ago, you’d need something big and sturdy to keep it to your arm properly, for as you can see in the game (though it lacks realism in many ways) if a guard saw you about to kill him, he would simply grab your arm, or block the blade with his own. If the blade isn’t strong enough, it’ll snap. If it isn’t secured tightly enough to the arm, it’ll rip off.

  75. 75 The Kid
    July 19, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    Oh, and it’s not fully working. I just built mine out of plastic and masking tape, so there are severe limitations to what what I’ve made can do. I built one that extends 12 inches from the housing, and can be used in a slashing movement without breaking but cannot be used to stab, and I built one 6 inches long that can be used to stab, but would be weak if used in a slashing movement, as it’s thinness which would make it effective in stabbing would be it’s downfall in slashing. *sigh* To be honest, what I’m planning to do it re-create the stabbing one, but more extendable (longer when fully extended) and make it out of metal tubing from the hardware store. That is, if they’d sell it to me.

  76. July 21, 2008 at 1:05 am

    @the Kid
    Well it sounds like a good idea, and there aren’t any real problems with designing it that way besides that fact that you’d have to do a “Wave your arm in the air! Wave em like you just don’t care!” deal when closing it, but it sounds like a good way to go. And so far as the slashing vs stabbing design, there are actually some good compromises, but you won’t be able to fabricate them using the materials you have available, so just choose one or the other and run with it…

  77. 77 The Kid
    July 21, 2008 at 1:44 am

    Yah. That’s where the hardware store and my dad’s saws and sanding stuff comes in. With the limits of what’s currently available, I am limited to less than even a compromise. You know what really irritates me? I know exactly what to do, what to make it with, what it’ll look like, but I lack everything to get it.

  78. 78 Crosseyes
    July 21, 2008 at 2:20 am

    once again, kinda freaked out by how much you know all this stuff o_0 lol just kidding.

    it’s kinda ironic actually, my dad owns a business in construction and I have access to virtually all of his tools, but without the knowledge or drive to do anything with them it’s kinda pointless ~_~ o well, luck of the draw I guess…

    either way, he’s just in wood flooring, but he got the powertools none the less…
    Crosseyes
    X_X

  79. July 24, 2008 at 1:11 am

    LOL Luck of the draw? Come on. You should ask your dad if he’d help you make a nice Shashka… :)

  80. 80 The Kid
    July 25, 2008 at 1:47 am

    Shashka?

  81. July 29, 2008 at 2:37 pm

    Aye, A Shashka, it’s a russian saber… Pretty cool actually, just wrote a post about them…

  82. 82 The Kid
    July 30, 2008 at 3:01 am

    Can ya give me a link?

    Also, I thought of a realistic design for the blade. It’s ridiculously simple, I’m sure you guys have thought of it. When I can be bothered (probably some time this weekend) I’ll see if I can post my pics.

  83. 84 The Kid
    July 31, 2008 at 1:04 am

    Now that’s one badass blade… kinda fits the whole ninja dagger style of fighting, except this is obviously Russian, not Japanese…

  84. 85 Crosseyes
    July 31, 2008 at 1:25 am

    Much thanks again for the russian spotlight. It’s eerie to find out about your past, and see how similar it is to your present. Guardless blades are a close second for me (right under scythes of course) for my favorite blades simply because of the pure offensive orientation. It was my thing long before I even found out I was russian (Dad’s family immigrated to Ireland, but that’s a story for another time) Take some time to look a little deeper into your interests, habits, pet peeves, and I can bet you’ll find a connection to a deeper part of yourself.

    Gettin all philosophical now
    Crosseyes
    X_X

  85. 87 Jato
    August 14, 2008 at 12:32 pm

    I’ve been looking through your posts and to be quite honest I couldn’t find if you ever found a look alike or a similar blade. So my question is, is there a similar blade to Altair’s hidden blade?

  86. 88 Niccolo
    August 14, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    Legally? Hell no.

    But Sinza has probably built one for himself.

  87. August 17, 2008 at 7:39 pm

    @Jato
    If you are talking about a real reproduction blade that operates in the same way, no, none exist that I am aware of… Kind of a bummer… But if you want to take a crack at building one yourself, you might want to take a look at Sinza’s site… http://sinza.forumotion.com

  88. 90 shadowstalker
    August 18, 2008 at 6:13 am

    There are two assasins blades in existance they are not like the actual hidden blade but they are simmilar and use a suprisingly simple. the main difference between these two designs is that the reproduction does not use a flick of the wrist type of mechanism but a rail mechanism with a lock at the bottom to hold the blade in place while retracted. there is a small length of string which is attached to the rail slider whis allows it to slide out the other end there is a loop which is placed around a finger then you pull the string with your finger and the lock shall disable and the blade will flick out. there is a simple lock at the top aswell which holds the blade out , however this lock is not so strong and can be broken by a flick backwards and will retract.

    P.S this is not my design i found it in a video on youtube. also this design is unreliable and is hard to put together even though the components are simple it takes a while to peice together.

  89. 91 Niccolo
    August 18, 2008 at 7:02 pm

    Actaully, Shadowstalker, that’s what we meant by the ‘flick of the wrist’. You flex your wrist to move your finger to pull the string to trigger the blade.

    It’s just hard to move your finger alone against any sort of tension, so the wrist-movement is necessary too.

    @phyreblade: Holy shazbot, you live!

  90. August 18, 2008 at 9:19 pm

    @Shadowstalker
    Yes, in fact there are many different designs floating about on the web and youtube, but no commercial reproductions. All of the ones I have seen, you will have to build yourself…

    @Niccolo
    Yes indeed, I LIVE…! Actually I just finished moving to a new cavern, pesky humans were building closer and closer to my secret lair, so I decided to relocate to somewhere a bit more remote… As you can imagine, I was kind of indisposed during the move. But I now have a slightly bigger cave from with to blog from, and should be able to resume posting in a bit here…

  91. 93 The Kid
    August 19, 2008 at 1:37 am

    ….And I got dumped with a huge assignment. Then another one. Then another. Then, lots of homework. So whatever it is that I promised, I haven’t gotten ’round to it. However, I did built a very basic design. Basically, a single blade which is thicker at the end than at the point is inside houseing which either tapers or 40 mill from the end suddenly gets thicker, so that when you drop the blade into the tube, it won’t come all the way out, rather it will ‘hang’. Then, you grab the hanging blade and stab some dude. Bring up your arm so that gravity pushes back in the blade, and Walla! Hidden blade for ya. I don’t really think I need a diagram, though IF I can (not WHEN) I probably will. As you can probably tell, I didn’t bother to go into complications. I just used the 11 inches of my forearm to house the single blade, rather than several nested ones.

    P.S Yes, the blade would come out by itself without a trigger, so you can either have a piece of hard material that you can slide out at the bottom, or just hold it in your hand and let go when you feel like it. Not convenient, but heck, how many assassins climb building after/during/before an assassination?

    Kicking himself,
    Kid

    CRAP! I shouldn’t have wasted 10 mins on that! I got a Greek Assignment due on Friday!!! AAAAAAHHH!

  92. 94 shadowstalker
    August 19, 2008 at 4:43 am

    okay so i kinda get the opening mechanism what would be the closing mechanism because it is most probabley quite a hevy blade with a 3 part metal slider could it possibly be part of a reverse spring that pushes the blades back up when he trigers another string or is it somthing more complacated any ideas

  93. August 19, 2008 at 12:25 pm

    @kid
    LOL Hey, I know all too well how that goes, don’t worry about it, get your work done so you can play hard… LOL

    @Shadowstalker
    Lots of ideas… Visit http://sinza.forumotion.com

    More ideas than you can shake a stick at…

  94. 96 MoZZA
    August 25, 2008 at 12:05 pm

    as a proud xiphoid fanatic on sinzas site theres plenty of info and as phyre said more ideas than you can shake a stick at! (though id have said more ideas then you can shake a double action automatic knife at ;))

    i mean thees even a bacon thread! what more could you want than bacon blades and booze! i especially love the “things on my desk” thread

  95. August 26, 2008 at 11:46 pm

    Correction appropriate and duly noted. Allow me to rephrase: Sinzas site has more ideas than you can shake an extended double action automatic Xiphoid at… :D

  96. November 18, 2008 at 4:08 pm

    you all seem to be undecided on the way in which the blade would actually release so may i suggetst that if you used a cog system to kinda -turn-outy- unscrew the blade it could probably be stronger and be easier to use although slower as you would have to unscrew
    maybe … maybe not

  97. 99 DARK ASSASSIN
    November 30, 2008 at 7:09 pm

    hey can email me all the items i’ll need please

  98. 100 DARK ASSASSIN
    November 30, 2008 at 7:10 pm

    hey can you email me all the items i’ll need please ~ srry

  99. 101 el estrago
    December 2, 2008 at 1:59 am

    hi there everyone, i recently stumbled over your blog and have been trying to catch up so i can join the festivities. has anyone considered high tech, as in gears and cogs? it seems that if you were able to fabricate a blade that forked with teeth on the inside of the fork with a cog on the inside, then either a simple motor or something to the effect of a watch spring, or even two opposing to facilitate the double action, leaving only one cog engaged at a time but setting the other spring taut for the next task, extinding/retracting, you would have a pretty reliable double action mechanism, and given the proper tools to fabricate the parts, you wouldnt sacrifice the size issue. please criticize so i can see if this is a feasible design before i try to do it. i hope that thi design made sense.

  100. December 8, 2008 at 4:34 am

    hey el estrago,
    Yes, as a matter of fact we have actually considered a few mechanically complex designs, If you visit http://sinza.forumotion.com we have a number of threads that have diagrams of different mechanisms. We haven’t done any with motors as of yet simply because most of us prefer the old school way of doing things. The mechanics of it is part of the fun for us. But yes, a motor driven blade would be quite easy to implement.

  101. 103 el estrago
    December 8, 2008 at 6:06 pm

    im simply thinking about functionality, a motorized design would allow for a discreet trigger, engineered correctly you’ll have nearly silent deployment, and plus you dont need to worry about the the thing closing on you. but the trigger would have to be in a place where a discreet motion could trigger it but have some sort of safeguard against accidental deployment.

  102. December 9, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    Weeeeelll I dunno. Motorization is actually somewhat difficult to silence. You need custom cut gears, as well as some kind of sound proof enclosure in order to avoid motor/gear whine… But from a practical stand point it would be much easier to design a motorized system as opposed to a purely mechanical one.

    As for discrete triggers, those are not limited to electrical circuits/switches, there are a variety of ways you can do that mechanically as well…

  103. 105 Skylar
    December 14, 2008 at 6:20 am

    It’s quite good and i like it. but can you please send me more on these kind of game weapons and the mechanism of the retractable blade please. tyty!

  104. 106 shadowstalker
    December 16, 2008 at 2:58 pm

    hi im back sorry that i have not posted in ages but ive been busy.

    any way i read what has been wrote sice august and there has been talk about a motor which powers the blade to fly out and ive been thinking that for somthing that powerful for it to power the blade that fast would need a reletivly sized motor and gears mounting all this up and encasing in a soundproof case so there is no gear whine as phyreblade said the thing would end up being rather big.

  105. 107 pYtoZm
    January 1, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    ._. pretty sick I want to build one! god am i late for the party.

  106. 108 el estrago
    January 6, 2009 at 8:25 pm

    i dont think these gears need to be big and bulky like you say phyreblade, im not talking about something that can extend into concrete, it should only require enough juice to extend and retract. i dont think the motor would need to be a diesel engine to do that. but i agree on the noise issue but from a mechanical standpoint, you may still get some noise. i just had a thought that may satisfy both of our tastes, pneumatics and hydraulics, through air or oil displacement (think the cow thing in no country for old men) and use the rod as opposed to the blade design, although a semi hollowed out blade could work, have a small pressurized chamber thats soul purpose is to propel the blade into the locked position, release the lock and the air sucks itself back into a less pressurized state and the blade re-locks. the actual system i think will be tough but a man of your mechanical inclination im sure can figure it out.

  107. January 10, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    ive made one already just havent made copys so i can sell them when i do 100$ ea on ebay

  108. 110 slick
    January 16, 2009 at 10:22 pm

    hey have always been looking for this type of weapon please let me know if there is any that has been produced and is functional and where can be purchased not all wars are fought overseas

  109. 111 Damian (aka Predator)
    January 17, 2009 at 2:16 am

    Hey, im kinda new to the sword making business and i have just persuaded my dad to help me make altair’s retractable sword, and i was wondering if you guys could send me any helpful info/blueprints whatever. Thanks

  110. 112 Damian (aka Predator)
    January 17, 2009 at 2:17 am

    my email is da_snot@hotmail.com

  111. 113 thatannoyingkid
    January 19, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    here’s the thing some people gave been arguing about, if you get at least 2 inchs of penetration, you’re fine just about anywhere on the body, seeing as the low pressure veins are located 2 inchs below the skin surface, if you can walk past some one while swinging your arms you can flick out the blade, swing your arm slash a tendon, a vein, or an artery. i also disagree with some of these debates of gears, seeing as the larger the gear, the more friction, the more force need to propel the blade or sleeves, and if you make a multiple nested blade, if you notice he can rest his “stub”(lol) on the flat of the blade easily, and not worry, but if you look closer, it’s not a blade, it’s a flat sided nest. i do gree with the mechanical stand point, it’s less likely to fail.

  112. 114 thatannoyingkid
    January 19, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    sorry about that, i had an interruption, anyways the mechanical stand point is that it’s quiter, it’s less likely to fail, it’s more reliable, and the silencing thing is that he wears a leather glove, absorbs sound and vibration(the cause of the noise in the first place) and once again the nesting, it’s a triple nested system, with the housing, the extension and the blade as said before, and housing is considered a sleeve since it’s slides, but only half as much as the others, and the gauntlet, that’s the original housing i guess.

    good luck, sorry about spelling mistakes, i’m getting a little tired it’s 10:45 here and i haven’t gottn much sleep lately, i’m n ot 13 yet, but i’m going to be in a week, and this is an awesome form i couldn’t wait to state my points before i forget them, and thank you discovery channel for the seemingly useless info

  113. 115 TheDarkMaster
    January 19, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    i got something to say about ur blog not any comments…Altair is missing a finger because its the mark of an assassin(remember Lucy in Abstergo industries showed Desmond her hand and she was missing a finger to show him she was undercover)not an accident caused by his blade.Also holding the blade in place of where the finger was is very practical, better grip. Oh this is about a comment about the no extension hidden blade(blade full length of forearm) thats not practical because you cant hold it without getting cut.

  114. January 20, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    what if you could take a cosh(police baton) spring system apart and mount it from the top would that work? please get back to me

  115. 117 Anonymous
    January 20, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    Greetings, I am a fellow blade Fanatic and have only recently discovered your articles. I hace a question for you. How would your design of the blade Be retracted? Please reply at your leisure and expect more from me soon. -@

  116. 118 el estrago
    January 26, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    well phyeblade can go into more detail than i can but theres a couple of ways to do it, you can use a double spring action which uses the tension of the first set of springs to deploy the blade to the open position, which in turn puts tension on the second set of springs, allowing the blade to retract after being released from the locked out position. the springs need to be radioed so that one set of springs has nearly identical tension to the other set otherwise one set will overpower the other and the mechanism will only work one way.
    another way to do it would be a gear and motor system, this is a little more technical, but all you need is a small two way motor that will actuate a set of gears, now the blade will have to be completely fabricated for this to work, with small teeth for the gears to run along, when you activate the motor the blade should extend into the open and locked position. unlocking the blade and activating the motor in the opposite direction probably with some kind of toggle switch, will bring the blade into the closed and locked position. i am a firm believer in locks on knives because (and especially with the syse we are talking about) it can prevent a false activation and gven the sensitiveness of the location of the devise its for the best.
    now the last one i can think of and my personal favorite, a hydraulic or pneumatic system. the reason i like this system so much is that it has very few moving parts and because of that will probably be the quietest system of deployment. what i have in mind is a three valve system, you have the first chamber filled with high pressure air, and the opening of the valve located on the blade side you will deploy your blade or rod or whatever your fancy. then once the air is in the open blade area, you open the second valve allowing the high pressure air into the next chamber causing a void in the blade chamber, which will let i retract. the final valve will let the air back into the first chamber so it is “at the ready” so to speak, and if you dont want it “at the ready leave the air in chamber two.
    while this is my favorite design it is probably the most expensive, dangerous, and impractical of the three, to make the valves work, they would have to be one way valves, and you’d have to figure out a way to keep the air pressurized because once the air is no longer pressurized and is acclimated to the volume of the chamber its i it won’t go through the valve anymore. and eventually the air will distribute equally in all four chambers and your blade will be useless. and lets not discount the fact that if high pressure air is propelling this devise then your ratio to space versus volume would have to be pretty dead on, or there wont be much to stop its deployment, and even if you encounter a force that can, your wrist may be the path of least resistance and snap! and on the flip side, not enough air and it wont deploy at all.

  117. 119 Ryan
    January 28, 2009 at 2:52 am

    I just thought I’d let you all know there is an unlicensed (or maybe licensed) hidden blade as well as a few other pieces of Altair’s equipment at this site

    http://www.strongblade.com/prod/sbmu-ac-extensiondagger.html

    http://www.strongblade.com/nav/assassins-creed.html

  118. January 29, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Guys….

    Phyreblade keeps telling you where to go for ideas and designs.

    Head over to our forum…EXOTIC AUTOMATIC http://sinza.forumotion.com

    Sure, it has my name in the title, but I consider Phyreblade to be my partner. Lord knows he’s done a ton of work over there!

    I should be getting the Gauntlet Stiletto in the mail today. I’ll post pictures and do a review of how it’s made. I made one about a year ago…fun toy. Nothing like a big spring loaded blade strapped to your arm!!You know that feeling you get when you open a switchblade or shoot a gun…think of a cross between the two. Snapping a blade out over your fist is a RAD feeling.

    I have also done a review on the ‘Assassin Extension Blade’ which is the commercial version of Altair’s wristblade from Assassin’s Creed. Took it apart to show how the inside guts work. Lots of pictures.

    The only thing I ask is don’t just talk about it…build it. Just build something, see how it works, and build another making each one better. We have TONS of ideas and drawings…what we need is more people just building and tinkering. I can’t do it all….

    EXOTIC AUTOMATIC http://sinza.forumotion.com
    Your one stop shopping for wristblades, mini flamethrowers, taser gloves, …and bacon!

  119. February 6, 2009 at 10:36 am

    I need to make a correction on here. Retractable blades are not illegal in any state. The carrying of concealed weapons without permits is not allowed in 48 states, and in California and other highly regulated (and un-constitutional) states, some weapons are permanently forbade for concealment and some for public carry such as nunchaku, switch-blades, etc…
    But the owning and transport of these weapons is perfectly legal. and in better states that are Shall Issue, you could acquire a permit to conceal them, and other far more practical weapons such as cane-swords.

    There is a book you can buy at many gun stores which covers your permit/carry regualtions in all 50 states and DC, it’s blue and white and basically the title reads “Laws and Regulations concerning firearms and concealed weapons in the United States.” It’s a general book, but I recommend it.

    You cannot expect to keep your freedoms if you do not know what they are and what they should be.

    Also, if you join the NRA, you receive legal assistance in these matters. I think, though, you better know if your state has felony laws for concealed carry because if so it may not be worth the battle… you lose all your rights over something stupid when honestly if you know what you’re doing, a ballpoint pen is deadly enough.
    Further, see if you can guess the only two TRUE free states where there is no permit requirement – as it should be (did you know conceal carry permit laws have their roots in racist anti-immigrant legislation back in the 1800s?).

    Alaska and Vermont.
    “…the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

  120. 122 altair
    February 16, 2009 at 7:23 pm

    iceman is correct.there should never be laws against weapons period.

    “…the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
    -no truer words have been spoken

  121. March 7, 2009 at 9:18 pm

    as i was lookin thru the sites to find an assassins creed wristblade i stumbled apon a place that sell real replica wristblades for somewhare around $120. THATS BADASS! so now im savin up money and scroungin bucks from parents, friends , and sometimes even total stangers to buy 1 :)

    oh! the site? http://www.strongblade.com
    thx phyreblade :)

  122. 124 Clint
    April 12, 2009 at 10:47 am

    Come to think of it, using a sleeved blade (like in the game) might actually be an adequate safety precaution. That way, the blade won’t be exposed while within range of the palm and the fingers.

    Just my 2 cents for an old post.

  123. April 12, 2009 at 2:13 pm

    Hey Clint,

    yes, I indeed, I’ve actually thought the same thing on many occasions. The sleeve really doesn’t seem to have any other practical function protection besides perhaps protecting the wielder from the exposed edge, and possibly adding rigidity to the weapon as a whole. But the other thing is, there is a much easier way to address both problems that would not have required the added complexity of an articulated sleeve.

    It would have been simpler, for instance, to simply make the blade much thicker, and round off the edges of the first 3 or 4 inches of the blade… It would have resulted in the same level of safety, and much greater strength. Perhaps the only drawback would be that the blade could end up being a little less stable within the housing than it would have been with the extra steel of the extension and it’s base, which would have provided a lot more additional stability within the housing when fully extended.

    Actually, that extra stability and strength may have been the whole point of the sleeve. The protection might simply be an added bonus…

  124. 126 BLACK WIDOW1300
    May 2, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    from my view, you have this pretty well thought out. i just might try and build this.(if possible)

  125. 127 another 13 year old kid
    July 3, 2010 at 6:38 am

    wow i feel like i missed this all but i have had a lot of thoughts about these weapons and such but like my predecesor (13yearoldkid) i am only 13 and lack the legal freedom but if you do reply to this phyreblade then i would feel pretty damn good but its okay if you dont cuz im like a year late.
    PS. its funny cuz im a knife fanatic a gun expert and also love to play and experiment with fire LOL a deadly mix if i do say so myself but anyway i know youll probly not respond to this but it feels good to say this crap anyway

  126. 128 another 13 year old kid
    July 3, 2010 at 6:40 am

    and sorry i should have listened to crosseyes about the waitin 5 mins before commmenting but by the way i am also in australia and well cya guys later hopefully!!

  127. 129 Hawkeye
    January 28, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Hi, I had an idea for the hidden blade, but I want everyone to know I have little to no idea what I’m talking about… Ok, so basically, you have the a stiffened leather vambrace, with steel reinforcements to make the blade more stabile. The blade is on an either aluminum or tin guide rail (to prevent excess friction from like metals adhering, like a trombone slide) with dual springs for quick release. I haven’t quite figured out a locking system yet. The blade trigger pushes some sort of blocking piece out of the blade’s way. The trigger would be a button under the wrist the would be depressed by the motion of moving the wrist back into a 90-degree angle. The blade itself would be double sided, 8 1/2 inches, slim, possibly hollowed (I know this compromises strength, but it also allows air out of the chest cavity, making a scream nearly impossible). Retraction with this design confuses me, anyone have any thoughts?

  128. 130 Hawkeye
    January 28, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    I just now thought up a locking mechanism! :) Basically, it’s the same as the system that kept the blade locked in the housing. The blocking price will slot into the part of the blade that remains in the housing (this part will have a slot specifically for this purpose) this peices slots after the wrist returns to its original position. This also allows for the stabber to make his hand into a fist, so if a bystander does not notice the blade, what transpires will look like only a punch…

  129. 131 kuu
    August 24, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    I love your blog but i gotta dissent on the part about the hidden blade being better on the forearm, that is not a hidden blade that is a retractable katar, the hidden blade’s concept is a blade concealed underneath the arm, so that one can use it to slowly walk into an unaware victim and thus stab him within a crowd by just placing the palm of your hand on top of said victim, activating the blade, and walking away before you are branded a suspect. Every other movement in Assassin’s Creed is just martial arts gravy designed to turn the blade into a weapon capable of being used on combat and perform a wider range of stealth kills to maintain the user entertained. Jumping someone with a hidden blade etc, not wise nor stealthy lol.

    If the blade was on the forearm it would be easily spot-able from a third party perspective when you activate it, and it would look bulkier too and arise suspicion. (not saying it would be huge but it would still be fairly visible)

    You cant stray so far away from the concept when designing just because the concept is harder to construct or more fragile than whats more practical, or else you stray from the desired weapon/result.

  130. 132 Ninja of Suburbia
    March 9, 2013 at 10:28 am

    Behold, crazed fans and sneaky-stabby lovers alike! Chris “Ammnra” Miles has constructed the very device for which we have long craved! He has pictures of his blade design on Flickr and videos on Youtube. I am in the process of reconstructing his design, or one similar, because he will not sell them. A note to all interested: I deal only in combat grade, thus, the blade will be battle-ready, full metal construction. If I am successful, I shall let you all know.

  131. May 18, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Hiya! I know this is kinda off topic nevertheless I’d figured I’d ask.
    Would you be interested in exchanging links
    or maybe guest writing a blog article or vice-versa?
    My website goes over a lot of the same topics
    as yours and I believe we could greatly benefit from each other.

    If you might be interested feel free to send
    me an e-mail. I look forward to hearing from you!
    Fantastic blog by the way!


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


December 2007
M T W T F S S
« Nov   Jan »
 12
3456789
10111213141516
17181920212223
24252627282930
31  

Subscribe The Dark Realm!

Add to My AOL

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

%d bloggers like this: